Interesting Thread from Facebook

Please forgive me for posting a Facebook thread, but as it pertains to our recent discussions about the way that symphony orchestra concerts are (or should be) presented, I thought it would be interesting for us to see the range of thoughts and ideas offered in response to the recent, uh, kerfuffle! in Utah at a Weber State University Orchestra performance where the conductor, Michael Palumbo, asked an 11 year old disabled girl to be removed from the concert for making noise. The disabled kids who were in attendance from Utah's HopeKids, a nonprofit group that provides opportunities for kids suffering from life-threatening medical conditions to experience events and activities with their families, had been invited to the concert by the WSU Performing Arts Department.

This thread begins with Chris O'Riley's response to the news story.

Christopher O'Riley via Chris Johnson

sorry. the conductor was the lame one, here.
we've done From The Top tapings where there was a disabled man hooked up to enough stuff in his wheelchair apparatus to vie with the noise of a small aircraft. didn't effect the sound quality of a nationally broadcast show, and didn't detract from the experience of anyone in the audience.
deal. adjust.
be inclusive.
do you have any idea how much effort it takes for people to get up the energy to go to a concert? much less a disabled person?
please.

Utah conductor explains response to noisy concertgoer at Beethoven symphony; girl was disabled | The

www.therepublic.com

OGDEN, Utah - A Utah music professor is responding to criticism of his decision to halt a performance of a Beethoven symphony twice after the noisy concertgoer he asked to leave turned out to be a disabled person.

Diane Acosta ‎"deal.Adjust" you said it perfectly. music is for everyone. Sometimes ,it is the only thing that a disabled person has left for enjoyment.That conductor sucks.

Johanna Maria Rose I totally agree with you. Once, however, Anonymous 4 did have to temporarily halt a concert because a man was having a heart attack. We waited until the ambulance came and took him to the hospital, and then resumed the performance. It was a difficult moment, but the audience was very respectful.

Carlos McMillan Fuentes i'm liking your remarks, not the article. that is shameful.

4 hours ago ·

Meral Guneyman he should spend a day in McGee Rehab...

Cynthia Katsarelis I conduct and teach at Holy Trinity School of Music in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. The noise is unbelievable and constant. There's really no choice but to carry on. And it works out.

Carlos McMillan Fuentes and what if it was a kid? are you going to rob that child of potentially their first (or only!) experience with Beethoven over simply being a kid?

4 hours ago ·

• • Timothy Phillips It seems like the lower on the totem pole professional conductors are, the more likely they are to try to make everyone else in the world feel like second class citizens. See, this makes them look like they're more awesome... right?

    4 hours ago ·
    

    Sondra Harnes fire the conductor...free tickets for life for the girl who was treated so badly...
  • Gil Gross We've become odd about what a classical music concert should be. I don't want to hear a ton of noise, but now we lower the lights so people can't read the translations during song recitals, so the poetry, which IS what the composer set, eludes almost everyone listening, which is not at all what the composer wanted. All this to avoid the sound of page turning. We read about people applauding between movements during Beethoven's concerts and movements being encored in the middle of a piece, and yet, HIP performers would agonize if we did such a thing today much less applauded before a piece was over which was de rigeur when most of the music we play was premiered. Maybe we're all too noise and audience participation aggrieved these days.

    
    

    Brian Worsdale I dont agree with you Timothy, I am not a conductor who considers himself low on the totem pole and moreover I don't try to make people feel like second class citizens. Yet here I am someone who conducts community bands and a successful summer program. I see myself as a vital part of what makes music important in the loves of people. Lets chalk this up to what it was, a conductor (behaving a bit lame) not thinking about his audience and their potential demographic.
  • Adam Jaffe I can only imagine what Keith Jarrett would have done...

    
    

    Omid Zoufonoun a museum society is where it heads if we are not careful. That, of course, is why the simon bolivar orchestra concerts sell out...they play the music well, but do away with the stiff upper lip arrogance.
  • Suzanne Mueller Well said, Chris!!
    

    Christopher O'Riley i'm sure Keith would've had their heads.
  • Christopher O'Riley Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli was playing the opening of his Carnegie Hall recital, one year, and there was the normal, unrestrained hacking and coughing of a self-important NY audience. he stopped and said "I'll come back when you're feeling better" and left the stage.

    
    

    Jody Delasandro Olson Thank you for saying this Chris. Also, sometimes a classical performance is intimidating for people. I'm sure this didn't help.

    4 hours ago ·
  • Omid Zoufonoun yes, well, his is also a case of pathological concert-cancelitis. People like that, Kleiber, etc. They are magicians, but we can't sustain a public art form with that level of tight-rope walking. They are my heroes, but they are not what makes this thing go round and keeps it relevant for the general public.

    
    

    Christopher O'Riley with that in mind, i remind my friends that From The Top will be in he concert hall where this happened, in Ogden, UT in mid-March for a show taping. :)
  • Cynthia Katsarelis Not liking the "low totem pole" conductor jibes. Not really fair to paint everyone with the same brush. My low totem status lets me work in Haiti at my own expense. Anyone want to join me? They have a great K-12 school, but now they want to create a college/conservatory to raise up their own teachers and performers. They could use some professional everythings to help develop their program. It's rugged, but rewarding. Let me know and I'll introduce you to the folks who can do the invite.
    

    Christopher O'Riley i can name a number of higher-totem pole conductors and musicians who would have applauded this maestro. wouldn't take it persoanlly, and we applaud your dedicated efforts in demanding circumstances
  • Olin Williams I can block out extraneous noise when I am totally engrossed in a performance, but the one thing I can't ignore is fragrance. Not the subject at hand, yes I know, just wanted to get that out.
    

    Malgosia Lis Mixed feelings here. First, the conductor didn't know the girl was disabled, was probably miffed at the crying baby sound. Honest mistake. Probably not a good idea to halt a performance; waiting till the end and saying something would be better. If he knew who was making the noises, his reaction might have been different.At the same time....I had, in recent months two instances of performances quite ruined by a noise made by a disabled person in the audience. By noise, I mean, laughing, screaming, moaning. It is online, I will be happy to provide a link. One performance was my daughter and her theater troupe, who at 8 years of age didn't really know what to do. They carried on, missing lines, cues and many other things. When you think about how much work went into it, your feelings are really in a confused state. The second one was just this past Sunday and it was my student. She did remarkably well considering. I guess the point of view on that depends on where you are in the equation....
  • Matthew B. Tepper The story goes that, during the premiere (or dress rehearsal?) of Shostakovich's 14th Symphony, which consists entirely of settings of poems about death, a man in the audience had a heart attack and died. As it happens, he was one of Shostakovich's enemies, a critic who never failed to savage the composer in the press. When the composer found out, he just remarked, "He got it."
    The performance was not interrupted.

    
    

    Timothy Phillips Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this sterilized, completely quiet classical music environment something that wouldn't have necessarily existed back in the 1700s or 1800s? I guess in some aristocratic circles it would have... but not necessarily all the time. Yet they still made music. How did they do that? It seems impossible. Honestly, I think it's this general snobbery that makes the average American hate the idea of going to a classical music concert.
  • Heather Taves We edit noise/humanness/errors out of our recordings until people think that's the only good sound for classical.
    

    Robert Pherigo I heard Radu Lupu playing Brahms sonata Op. 5 in Scottsdale years ago. During the sublime 2nd mov. A noise that sounded like a helicopter landing backstage started! He kept playing through the movement and then left the stage. I was amazed that he could keep playing with that very loud racket going on.
  • Cynthia Katsarelis Thanks Christopher! Not taking it personally, but showing a really different setting for music, one that blows away stereotypes, and puts a rather petty perspective on what happened in Utah. And I was proselytizing for the school. They tour in the US, perhaps you'll hear them some day.
    

    Matthew B. Tepper There's a recording of a string quartet by Stockhausen that's marred by what sounds like four helicopters....
  • Christopher O'Riley i pride myself on having performed at two State Mental Hospitals for inmates at Danvers (MA) and Camarillo (CA). i have never have a more rapt and attentive audience in the contemplative and intense Haydn slow movement, to be followed by hearty hoops and hollers during the rambunctous Rondo.

    
    

    Robert Pherigo Another noise story; a well known chorale conductor told me about being at an Emerson SQ concert and being very aware of a loud ticking from a wristwatch coming from the row behind him. He turned around and asked the man to take off his watch; but it wasn't a watch, it was a heart valve!!

    
    
  • Christopher O'Riley Matthew-i'm pretty sure Karlheinz was a Sikorsky artist

    
    

    Tim Page One of the weirdest experiences I ever had was at the Kennedy Center in the midst of the St. Matthew Passion when a service dog howled softly and continuously throughout the trial of Jesus. Nobody knew what to do about it.

    
    
  • Christina Fong I played a lunchtime quartet recital once at the university that I was adjunct professor for. Since these were free concerts, often times neurologically disabled people from a neighborhood group home would be brought in by one of the caretakers. One of these people became loud. After the concert the other violinist "lectured" the caretaker about "appropriate" and "inappropriate" concert behavior. The caretaker then lectured the her on the life that these people had which seemed to make no difference to the other violinist. I was so embarrassed by my colleague's behavior and apologized profusely to the caretaker. Needless to say, I no longer play in that quartet.
    

    Lisa Dondlinger I would never want someone to miss a beautiful experience such as hearing a Beethoven Symphony because they are disabled. Optimally our audiences as classical musicians would be focused and quiet when need be, but life happens and I would hope we could embrace that. I want all audience members to feel equally welcomed so the environment does not feel sterile, but rather engaged.
  • Michael Sheppard That "any noise interferes with the audience's enjoyment and distracts performers" is absolutely true, at least for me. Of COURSE he couldn't have known it was someone with a disability; I'm sure he felt suitably bad afterward. But considering all the time and preparation that goes into a concert, and that silence is the canvas on which all of our stories are painted, I can certainly understand getting upset at extraneous noises. I think, though, that the best response for the performer (i.e. the response that will help you not to appear to be a douchebag) is to realize at a certain point, "oh well, it's basically ruined, might as well let it go and continually attempting to play beautifully just in case ONE person in the hall isn't completely distracted by whatever-it-is". Anything else is a version of "letting the terrorists win", rather than letting the music win (although that's probably not a great analogy, since in this case the person isn't being a terrorist on purpose, but you get the idea). I don't think it has anything to do with snobbery; it has to do with not wanting to be taken out of the story, whether in the telling of it (from the point of view of the performer) or in the taking of it in (from the point of view of the listener/audience).

    
    

    John Robinson Reminds me of the time I was at a performance of a John Cage opera at Boston's Jordan Hall. Also attending was a group of very vocal adolescents with Down Syndrome. Cage would have loved it!
  • Margaret Finkler Dikel One of my orchestras is trying to figure out how to make it easier for people with mobility issues to attend our concerts. We'd be happy with any attendees Utah doesn't want.
    

    Michael Sheppard For the record, I support applause after movements, or at least after rousing movements. (After quiet movements, if I hear applause, I usually just turn to them, smile, acknowledging it, then quietly have the thought either that I somehow failed at that movement or that the people clapping are idiots of one or another stripe...and I try my utmost to have the former thought as much as possible, because at least there's something I can DO about that, whereas I can't help people not be idiots.)
  • Amber Rose I embrace & applaud the oftentimes irritating imperfections of real life (on both sides). I remember that It is through the RAW experience of BEING HUMAN that much of this music was created...and also why it is enjoyed. Music exists BECAUSE we are real!
    

    Polly van der Linde I no longer take Summer Sonatina International Piano Camp to outdoor lawn concerts at Tanglewood. Instead, I pay a premium because I can't handle the disrespectful audiences there drinking their wine and eating their cheese while TALKING OUT LOUD! I cannot accept taking our youth, ultimately our future adult paying audiences, to witness this INSULT! So it costs me an arm and a leg to not be on the lawn anymore but it's worth it. Besides, I want them to hear the MUSIC. Sorry for my rant but I simply don't comprehend this and I'm not talking about babies screaming in the outdoor audience - I'm talking mature (and obviously wealthy) adults who are there for their own group chitchat, not to listen to music at all.
  • Eric Koenig The Brazilian composer Heitor Villa-Lobos was totally unfazed by noise. Many people think of composers as needing total silence in which to work; V-L was able to work with extraneous noises including music being played.
    
    Regarding the 1969 dress rehearsal (it was not allowed to be called a "premiere") of the Shostakovich 14th Symphony, the critic who had a heart attack was one Pavel Apostolov (what a name ...). He and others were listening to Shostakovich, standing on the stage before the "rehearsal" began, speak about his work (something he rarely did). The Symphony consists of 11 movements, almost all of which are played without pause, and Shostakovich commented on the 8th, "Response of the Zaporozhy Cossacks to the Sultan of Constantinople," the only one which does not actually depict death. One of the audience members, Yuli Turovsky (now conductor of I Musici de Montreal), recalled that Shostakovich said, "This is about the most DISGUSTING thing of all," and suddenly there was a crash. Apostolov had gotten out of his seat and walked out of the concert hall. Shostakovich continued his talk, then went to his seat and the "rehearsal" took place. Afterwards it was discovered the critic had shortly thereafter experienced a heart attack and was in the hospital. About a month later he died (legends persist he died on the spot or at least that day).
    

    Michael Sheppard Amber, I appreciate the place from which that statement comes, and I definitely applaud you for having it. However, I believe that music is transcendent to (that is, *inclusive* of and "better" than, not merely *separate* from and "better" than) being human. Therefore, I don't want to merely be reminded of "messy human life" or whatever, since that's what I experience every day; I want to be lifted out of that to a higher plateau on which I believe great art exists. It exists to lift us up, and all have access to it, which is why such a situation as this is regrettable from both sides and is (for me, anyway) a tough call as to what to do. Yes, music can be raw, but the only way we can allow the music to be what it is is to leave the performer alone and not, to the degree possible, bother him with OUR own rawness that we bring into the place. I hope that makes some kind of sense. Anyway, I would have kept going if I were the conductor, and let the audience/ushers deal with it as they would. :-)
  • Mark Powell ‎"boorish and pompous"
    'nough said. . .
    

    Stonewall Harris People pay top dollars for concerts, and they want to hear the music....just saying. The fact that it happened to be a disabled person(note: what was the disability?), is the only reason people are responding like this. If it was some jerk off, the responses would be different. And similarly, the jerk off would not be defended for making the effort to go see that concert. There has to be better things to talk about in the music world, than bashing a conductor for doing something many of you would have done, were you in his shoes. And I'm not a jerk, I'm just say.....people pay top dollars to hear the music, not distractions from anyone.

    
    
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